Pursuing the Camera subject...
I received a request from reader Kirk B. to post a follow-up to the Q&A with LEGO regarding the question about the camera - LEGO pushed back and asked what WE (the consumers) were looking for...
Kirk writes:
The LEGO Co. had an interesting response to the LEGO camera question Jim Kelly asked them at the FLL World Festival:
3. Is there a plan to create a cheap (<100$) camera sensor for autonomous robot operation?I would turn the question around and ask: what would you really want to do with a ‘camera sensor’?
Reading between the lines, it seems the LEGO Co. is looking for a convincing argument(s) to create a new camera.
We could help the LEGO Co. by providing them some useful information for the development of a new LEGO camera. (Once all the comments are received, they will be forwarded to the LEGO Co.).
Please comment what improvements you would make to the original LEGO camera and its software, and how much you would be willing to pay for the new LEGO camera. Also, “what would you really want to do with a ‘camera sensor’?”
I agree with Kirk wanting to pursue this, so if you've got something to add regarding the camera, please do so here... Kirk and I will try to forward this information back to LEGO in 2-3 weeks and see what they say.
Kirk writes:
The LEGO Co. had an interesting response to the LEGO camera question Jim Kelly asked them at the FLL World Festival:
3. Is there a plan to create a cheap (<100$) camera sensor for autonomous robot operation?I would turn the question around and ask: what would you really want to do with a ‘camera sensor’?
Reading between the lines, it seems the LEGO Co. is looking for a convincing argument(s) to create a new camera.
We could help the LEGO Co. by providing them some useful information for the development of a new LEGO camera. (Once all the comments are received, they will be forwarded to the LEGO Co.).
Please comment what improvements you would make to the original LEGO camera and its software, and how much you would be willing to pay for the new LEGO camera. Also, “what would you really want to do with a ‘camera sensor’?”
I agree with Kirk wanting to pursue this, so if you've got something to add regarding the camera, please do so here... Kirk and I will try to forward this information back to LEGO in 2-3 weeks and see what they say.
Comments
But wireless, remote surveilance from your NXT is the dream for me.
- Motion detection: a camera would be able to detect and track motion much better than an Ultrasonic sensor. For example, an Ultrasonic sensor can't track an object moving around, but a camera could do it no problem. This would be really useful for making robots that could follow other robots or people, for example.
- Color sensing: camera would be very handy for detecting different colors in several different places.
- User-control features: a camera would open up WAY more possibilities for user-controlled robots, by giving the user a view of the surroundings.
- Combo Sensor: A camera can act as a light sensor, color sensor, motion sensor, and object sensor (?) all in one. This greatly increases the abilities of a robot, as it lets the robot have more sensors.
Is that good? I've been dreaming about a wireless camera like Vision Command since I first got the RIS - I would probably be willing to pay about $100 for one if Lego made it.
-Jonathan
Image processing, Machine Learning, Robot Cooperation... There are a lot of things that could be done!!!
Ronald Delgado.
Caracas, Venezuela.
Remote surveillance and remote operation are easily done using any wireless camera. What is the added value from LEGO, easy mounting and power from the NXT?
Motion detection, color sensing and object recognition would be cool. But that will require the camera sensor to have a lot of memory and a powerful processor. Sounds spendy. How do you program the camera, and how would this information be conveyed to the NXT? What is the format and transport mechanism? What would a LEGO solution give you that you can't do right now with a wireless camera and vision processing software on your laptop?
So if that's not the option, here are the capabilities I want:
1. Can draw power from both Battery pack and NXT brick (motor port A...Thanks Philo!)
2. Can communicate with Brick in a closed loop. Sensor port 1.
3. Has ability to send information to a computer/video monitor.
4. Vision Command capabilities w/ on board processing.
5. I want it to match JP Brown's Rubic's Cube solver...without the computer...make it just the camera and the NXT brick.
1. Have the camera with a built in processor for on-board image analysis to directly command the NXT to respond. (It may be useful to have the camera and processor separate so the camera can be replaced/upgraded.) Also the camera should have wireless communication to a computer for observation by the user.
2. Have the camera send wireless images to the computer for image analysis or observation by the user (no on-board processor for the camera on the robot).
I would be happy if LEGO would sell any of the above camera systems, but I prefer (1). I would be willing to pay up to $150 USD for (1), but only up to $100 for (2). My key point is that the camera has to be wireless! (This would probably require LEGO to offer some kind of wireless receiver as a separate purchase.)
More importantly, what LEGO would have to do is have a “plug and play” solution, as they would be marketing this to children, primarily. Not too many children could be able to program the vision processing softwares that are currently available, and get the vision program to command the robot what to do. (Many adults are looking for a “plug and play” solution, as well). This is what a LEGO SOLUTION COULD PROVIDE that no one else can currently provide.
Equally important, the vision system should be programmable in NXT-G with the inclusion of some basic image analysis blocks, such as for motion, object, and colour detection. Also, the Mindstorms community could create their own vision blocks (facial expression recognition, etc). National Instruments has a machine vision software package that is an add-on to LabVIEW, hence it makes sense for LEGO to have them produce the NXT-G machine vision add-on.
And if LEGO will not have a camera, I want to at least have an NXT-G vision software add-on that can work seamlessly with NXT-G, and be compatible with a variety of camera systems.
Andy
There is one thing for certain, that LEGO would have to offer a better camera than the original camera release (Vision Command) before anyone would start buying it, or at least myself.
The new camera, at minimum, would have to be wireless (something with a higher transmission rate than BT, such as Wi-Fi), have a higher resolution, work in low light conditions, and have improved vision software.
Not necessary, but I would like it to have infrared LED's for night vision, and a built in microphone. The signal from the microphone should also be transmitted wirelessly to the computer (in surveillance purposes, its nice to not just see, but hear too).
To help keep the cost of the camera expansion kit down, no need to supply any Technic parts, as was done with Vision Command.
Have it connect to a sensor port on the NXT? That depends on what I want the NXT to do with it. I don't think the NXT brick is powerful enough to handle much of the video processing.
I would like to see a package deal.
A LEGO form factor small color camera. A small USB device to receive signals from the camera and feed them into the PC (these are already available). And a good communication protocol to send commands and input back to the NXT wirelessly (bluetooth would work, it just needs to be simple to implement).
But, I would also like to see this capable of handling multiple camera signals.
I think that starts getting pricey.